Timeline strategy with my first grow

[rama777]

Gotcha, that makes sense. Heck I’ve got pepper plants that produce hardly any leaves and grow super tall and thin and then I have peppers that practically form a mat all widespread with a canopy of endless foliage. No two strains behave quite alike..

I’ll be curious to see how much they stretch. I’m hoping quite a lot for a couple reasons.

Since I’ve wound up with 100 or so tops, I think a trellis net makes good sense. I’ve got a 3.5” grid and a 6” and I plan to put the smaller mesh in first. Not sure if the second one will get used or not.

I need to wait for some real stretch before I can do a thorough lollipop pruning. I basically refuse to undertake that task with screens in place since I can only work from the front. Most people advise waiting a few weeks into 12/12 before doing that. If I waited that long to put a screen in, then the screen becomes useless, hanging out above the canopy.

So I don’t know. This strain is almost definitely going to stretch 2x minimum. So I’m thinking I could wait until they do maybe 1.75x stretch, then lollipop a bit more than the lower third with the assumption that it will wind up being around an actual 1/3 if the overall height. And then put the screen down as low as I can get it and hope that they stretch another 5” which they “probably” will.

Does that sound like a smart plan?

It’s either that or wait until the stretch is about done, prune and then use stakes. What might you do with these 100 or so tops on 4 plants?

[rama777]

[rama777]

[mrgrowit]

Your question: “What might you do with these 100 or so tops on 4 plants?”
Answer: It’s almost entirely full so I personally would add the net in now and start working the tops into it. A flip to flower would come within a week after probably. That’s just what I’d do; others may take a different route.

[rama777]

Cool thanks! I’ve got screens ready. I flipped to flower already. I need to do whatever amount of pruning of the buttons before I put the screen down otherwise I won’t be able to access the back plants. But, I also feel like I should let them stretch more before doing so in order to get close to getting the bottom third. Or, I could just pull the bottom HALF now then put the screen in. Seems like people recommend to  do pruning later into flowering and to leave them alone at this stage. Or I could drop the screen down without Doug any defoliation until later and very carefully pull the screen up to prune, and then bring it back down again? Seems risky but I don’t know. I am very patient so I wouldn’t mind doing that. Just can’t decide what to do when because I have no experience!

[rama777]

Okay I think I have a game plan for the screen. Right now I’m thinking I’ll let them keep stretching and then at around day 14-21 of flowering, I’ll pull them out for lollipopping. Then I’ll put them into their final position and drop a screen down and feed the tops through carefully.

I am getting the feeling that because of how crowded things are that I should probably do a fair amount of defoliation. I’ll keep assessing things as they grow. But, if I do have to do a good bit of defoliation (independent of the lollipopping that is..), I get the sense that I risk putting the plants into shock and messing up my yields by both defoliating and lollipopping at the same time.

So, with my plan for pruning the lower third in about 10-15 days from now, when then should I defoliate?

My gut says to be pulling 4-6 leaves every single day. Or I could do defoliation in one big session.

decoliate daily? Defoliate all at once at day 10, day 14, day 18, day 21?

Lillipop separately or with defoliation? Lollipop on day 18, day 21? If separately, lolly  on 18, then defoliate on day 21? Lolly on day 18 OR 21, but defoliate on day 10, 14, 16?

Or again I could just be plucking from above and below little by little every day. I was pulling leaves from the lower portion every couple of days during veg. That never seemed to slow them down. Not sure if they react differently to light pruning during flower.

Lastly, during the stretch and before flower set, do you treat that stage as you would veg with respect to VPD?

[rama777]

You know don’t even worry about all of that. My vision is finally complete :))

Gonna be a pretty good show in this packed out tent!

They seem to be at around 90% of perfect health. From watching how they respond to feedings relative to the climate swings, I’d say the 10% shy comes down almost exclusively to running a higher than optimal VPD. Feeding strength really boils down to those transpiration rates. If I were closer to 1-1.1 instead of my average 1.5ish, I could have put probably 50% more nutrients in the soil by now. That’s my theory anyhow.

[rama777]

I had some ballast and bulb compatibility issues but that’a been sorted out with hortilux supers. Here’s the last of the pretty metal halide shots from yesterday. Nothing but ugly ass orange from here on out 🙁

 

[rama777]

Screen going in tonight or tomorrow.

Do you have any advice about how high the colas should come up past the screen, optimally? I’m expecting about 10 more inches of growth. I could try to lower the screen down and feed the tips through for a few inches. I could then use a second screen 6” up, leaving about 5-6” of tops above the second screen.

Or I could put the screen at canopy height now, which would leave upwards of 10-11” of tops above just the one screen.

Lastly, I could wait to install a single screen so that I just have 6-8” or so of tops above the screen after the stretch is over.

Also, if you happen to see this within a few days, what are your thoughts about how deep to prune off bud sites and branches that are underneath the canopy?

Or perhaps put another way in the context of my overall finished plant height, how deep does HPS penetrate and actually create good buds? That brings up the question of the leaf density of the canopy. With about 80 tops in a 3 foot square, there will be more restriction of light passing through the canopy than if I had significantly less tops. So in my mind, it may be wise to remove bud sites to a deeper level than if I had less tops/more open light.

But, even if that logic holds true, I still don’t have much of an idea of how far up to remove bud sites and branches! Or put another way, how far down from the top of the rather thick canopy to allow bud development.

In my case, I estimate the finished canopy height to be 28” above the actual soil line.

Thank you!!

[rama777]

Actually that brings up one more question. If I did decide to heavily defoliate at around day 21 to allow for a significantly deeper light penetration below the canopy, would the smaller fan leaves that are developing just grow out to a large size again and block all the lower light that I attempted to create?

[rama777]

I figured out a different way to approach this if I get a lux meter.

A simpler question about how deep to prune is: how many minimum HPS lumens would you want at an actual bud site to be happy with the quality, density of those buds?

[rama777]

Got the net in. Last shot of the grow, which heartbreakingly is over. I never did any major defoliation but was taking some leaves off every 2-3 days throughout this first 13 days of flowering. Feedings weren’t perfect but I don’t think wildly off or anything. Temps were on point, VPD decent.

Found some male flowers, seeing lots of brown tips on pistils. Haven’t spotted any open flowers but I think it’s time to end the grow..

[mrgrowit]

Sorry for the delayed response as I was out of town. Your plants look fantastic! Really good job there so far. You made several posts with questions and I’m not sure which ones you’ve figured out, so I’m guessing. Below is what I think you may still be wondering:

Your question: defoliate daily? Defoliate all at once at day 10, day 14, day 18, day 21? Lillipop separately or with defoliation? Lollipop on day 18, day 21? If separately, lolly  on 18, then defoliate on day 21? Lolly on day 18 OR 21, but defoliate on day 10, 14, 16?
Answer: I typically like to lollipop and defoliate right before flipping to flower and then I’ll evaluate again on days 7, 14, and 21.

Your question: During the stretch and before flower set, do you treat that stage as you would veg with respect to VPD?
Answer: Once I’m on a flowering light cycle, I like to utilize the Bloom VPD chart

Your question: Do you have any advice about how high the colas should come up past the screen, optimally?
Answer: I aim for them to be 8-10” above the screen when done stretching.

Your question: What are your thoughts about how deep to prune off bud sites and branches that are underneath the canopy?
Answer: I remove all growth under the net, including branches that don’t make it up to the net.

Your question: How deep does HPS penetrate and actually create good buds?
Answer: This is debatable. Also, depends on what you mean by “good” buds. Some genetics have what I call good buds all the way down the plant. But generally, if the canopy isn’t too thick, you should get what many consider “good buds” 10-15” down from the top of the canopy; this answer will probably vary depending on who you ask though.

Your question: If I did decide to heavily defoliate at around day 21 to allow for a significantly deeper light penetration below the canopy, would the smaller fan leaves that are developing just grow out to a large size again and block all the lower light that I attempted to create?
Answer: No, after the plant is done stretching, it’s focusing on flower development so you shouldn’t have that issue.

Your question: How many minimum HPS lumens would you want at an actual bud site to be happy with the quality, density of those buds?
Answer: I personally don’t use lumens as a measurement so I don’t have an answer for you on this one.

 

Ah you think they are all male plants? Can you submit pics so we can confirm? Sometimes it’s best to wait several days to ensure they are actually pollen sacs since it can be a bit tricky to identify right away. You can safely let the pollen sacs grow for a solid 10 days or so without risk of them opening up. They usually open up 14-21 days into flowering.

[rama777]

Thank you for the answers!

I went ahead an lollipopped and pruned two of the plants. The other is still stretching fast still. I would have liked to have taken more leaves off but since I had a plant go hermie, I got shy about causing any more stress than necessary.

Thankfully I was wrong. I only had one true hermie hopefully. The others got the green light. The one plants was just undeniably putting out some male flowers. None of them opened as far as I could tell but I think one must have, possibly before the flip. I watch these plants so closely though. It seems so unlikely that I wouldn’t have seen the flower in an open state, but it is what it is. Any previous thought I had about the plants being potential hermaphrodites was nanners later on. So during veg and until I spotted a flower at around day 13 after the flip, I was not scouting for any male flowers. Once I saw plenty of pistils on all the plants during veg, male flowers were not on my radar.

I have a fair number of seeds developing on the pre-flip flowers on the remain 3 plants. I’ve pinched some off that have brown pistils and all had a tiny green, hard formation. I’m essentially certain they are seeds.

I have some brown tips here and there on the buds that are forming. More on a particular plant that started showing some light intensity stress (no heat stress in my tent). I moved the light up and will slowly bring it closer. I just brought it a little too close, too soon. I also am questioning if my oscillating fans are on too high a setting. Hoping that the new brown tips are from light stress, wind stress or a combination of both. Time will tell. There is no two ways around the fact that some amount of pollen is or was circulating given the seeds forming, at the minimum on the pre-flip flowers.

There’s virtually no way that I can imagine that I would have missed a big pollen dump even from a single flower.  So my fingers are crossed that the seeds will be very minimal but I am admittedly feeling anxious about it. We’ll just have to see what happens..

I cut the net out since I had more space from removing the hermie. So I do now have the option of removing the plants and bleaching the room and equipment. 

 

[rama777]

Looking over your last comment does make me feel more sure that whatever flower opened would have been a pre-flip flower. Hopefully it was just one and not too loaded.

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